Evy Poumpouras: Read People & Spot Lies Like a Spy

What if you could read people the way a Secret Service agent does? Evy Poumpouras spent over a decade protecting U.S. presidents, served on the Presidential Protective Division for Barack and Michelle Obama, and later worked as a polygraph examiner and interrogator. In this episode of Figuring Out with Raj Shamani, she shares how to spot lies, get criminals to talk, and think like a protector.

Who Is Evy Poumpouras?

Evy Poumpouras started as an NYPD officer. She later joined the U.S. Secret Service. Her career included criminal investigations, protection details, undercover work, and polygraph examinations. She also became an NBC law enforcement analyst and author.

The Secret Service has two main missions: criminal investigations and protection. Agents protect the president, former presidents for life, their families, and foreign heads of state visiting the U.S. A single week can include a search warrant, an arrest warrant, an undercover assignment, a protection detail, or an overseas trip.

The Secret Service Hiring Process Is Brutal

• The process can take up to 1 year.
• Applicants apply through agency websites or recruitment centers. Agencies do not knock on your door.
• Steps include paperwork, written exams, panel interviews, tough scenarios, and a polygraph.
• Prior NYPD or military service is a strong signal.
• Motive matters. 'Serve something greater than myself' beats 'see if I can do this.'
• A conditional offer is not a job. It only lets you try training.
• Trainees can be removed at any point.
• NYPD training had 1,500 cadets. Cadets were yelled at, punished with push-ups, and lined up on a freezing rooftop called the muster deck.
• The best skill was enduring physical, emotional, and psychological pain.

How to Read People and Spot Lies

Evy says lie detection starts with a baseline. You need to know how someone normally talks and moves. Then you look for shifts.

• Watch for changes in tone, voice cracks, throat clearing, posture, gestures, or arm crossing.
• Ask yourself why the shift happened. Then ask more questions.
• A throat clear means nothing if it happens all interview. It may just mean the person needs water.
• Not every liar scratches their nose.
• Polygraphs measure sweat, blood pressure, heart rate, and other autonomic responses.
• The examiner looks for an extra reaction on one question, not just general nervousness.
• Polygraph results are inadmissible in U.S. court. They are used as an investigative tool.
• An unethical examiner can make someone fail.
• About 75% of people lie or embellish resumes.

Influence Tactics That Get People Talking

Evy explains that interrogators use influence, not force. The U.S. cannot make someone talk. Miranda rights protect the right to remain silent.

• Autonomy: tell the person they can leave anytime. Show them the unlocked door. Let them feel in control.
• Reciprocity: do something for someone, and they may feel they owe you. This can be used for good or manipulation.
• Authority: people say yes more often to those they see as authorities. Voice, dress, entrance, and aura all signal authority.
• A 2012 U.S. study found politicians with deeper voices were more likely to win. Voters saw them as more authoritative.
• Darker colors signal more authority than bright colors like yellow.
• First impressions form in 0.1 to 0.5 seconds. Negative impressions are very hard to reverse.

Inside Presidential Protection

Protection works in layers. Each circle around the president is meant to stop a threat at some point. The innermost circle is called the shift. That is the last line of defense.

• Ground teams dress like the crowd to blend in.
• Counter-snipers watch open windows and rooftops.
• In Argentina, Evy responded to a possible rooftop threat while President Bush was moving. The team found an older man with binoculars. He apologized.
• Presidents are most vulnerable during movement, arrival, and departure. Agents keep the motorcade moving. They do not stay locked in one spot.
• For an Obama event with 10,000 people, Evy needed to block a nearby highway from line of sight and blast. She borrowed every yellow school bus in the district and lined them along the road.
• Agents think like attackers. They ask how they would kill the protectee, then work backward to stop it.

Why Foreign Protection Is a Diplomatic Headache

Protecting a president overseas is a gamble. The U.S. must trust the host country, but trust has limits.

• For a trip to Mumbai, an advance team may go about 1 month early to work with local police and military.
• The U.S. shares some security plans but not all. Other countries may want to copy U.S. methods or spy on them.
• In Russia, Evy protected the Secretary of Treasury. The Russians agreed to a plan, then locked out most of the U.S. team at the gate.
• In one African country, the host offered 10 guns instead of 50. Evy wanted 50. The host also offered its own people, but the U.S. wanted its own trained agents.
• U.S. presidents always use U.S. cars. The U.S. flies them over. Host cars could have unknown armor or hidden bugs.
• Protection agents must also act like diplomats. A fight with the host government can hurt relations.

Ballistic Vehicles and Kevlar

• Ballistic vehicles have layered armor, ballistic glass, and bullet-resistant tires.
• Tires may use Kevlar. Kevlar is a fabric, not metal. It can stop bullets but not a knife.
• U.S. Secret Service uses Suburbans and Cadillacs modified by its own team.
• Armor adds weight. A normal chassis may be designed for about 4,000 lb. Armored cars need framework changes.
• They do not simply drive slower. They must be driven differently. Braking takes longer, like a big truck.

How Evy Would Interrogate Jeffrey Epstein, Pablo Escobar, and Ted Bundy

Evy says high-level interviews take days, not hours. The goal is often information, not a confession. The evidence may already be enough to convict.

• Jeffrey Epstein: request 5 days. Spend the first few days talking about anything but the case. Ask about his life, childhood, feelings, food, and needs. Keep him talking.
• Epstein goal: who was on the island, who else was involved, how he got girls, how the business ran, and how big it went.
• Pablo Escobar: focus on the good part of Pablo. Talk about family, community, faith, and donations. Preserve his dignity. Get his network, not just a confession.
• Ted Bundy: a sole actor. Ask about his childhood, why he targeted people, and how future violence can be prevented.
• Serial killers do not become serial killers overnight. One Secret Service applicant admitted burning about 100 cats while growing up.
• Osama bin Laden: spend days. Give him a platform to talk about his cause. Listen for names, places, dates, money, weapons, and next in command.
• Many criminals are narcissists. Saying 'I am impressed. How did you do it?' can get them talking.

Undercover Operation: Passport Trafficking Ring

Evy once worked undercover in New York. She posed as a sex trafficking victim from Eastern Europe. She adopted an accent and tried not to look like an agent.

• The target was an Albanian organized crime ring in Brooklyn.
• The ring sold real passports, birth certificates, and documents to criminals and terrorists.
• Her cover story: traffickers took her documents. She needed a phone but could not get one without ID.
• She bought documents with cash and brought other undercover women to the target for paperwork.
• The case went to a secret grand jury. The grand jury issued an indictment, which locked in the arrest.
• The suspect was caught by others, not by Evy.

Crime, Threats, and Prevention

• Two crime deterrents: certainty of being caught fast, and punishment. Remove either, and crime rises.
• Evy says 99.9% of people who commit crimes justify it to themselves.
• A bank employee who stole money blamed the bank for leaving money out and not locking it up. Most bank fraud, maybe half, happens from within.
• The Secret Service runs the National Threat Assessment Center. It worked with the Department of Education to spot school shooters before they act.
• Mass shooter patterns include a life change, a breakup, access to weapons, and communicating a plan to someone.
• People often do not tell anyone when someone close to them acts strange. Reporting early can put a person on the radar and save lives.
• Threats now come through social media. The Secret Service works with social media companies to assess them.
• Evy's most powerless moment was 9/11 at the World Trade Center. She watched people jump and could not help.
• She says feeling bad does not mean you are weak. It means you are human. 'Progress no matter how slow is still progress.'

Key Takeaways

• Read people by learning their baseline first.
• Use autonomy, reciprocity, and authority to influence, not force.
• Protection is layered. Every layer tries to stop a threat earlier.
• Overseas protection is a negotiation and a trust gamble.
• High-level interrogations take days. The goal is often information, not a confession.
• Prevention starts with noticing and reporting odd behavior early.

FAQ

How can I tell if someone is lying?

Look for changes from their normal baseline. Watch tone, voice cracks, throat clearing, posture, and gestures. Ask more questions when you see a shift. Do not rely on one sign like a nose scratch.

Does the polygraph prove a lie?

No. Polygraph results are inadmissible in U.S. court. The machine measures autonomic responses like sweat, heart rate, and blood flow. An examiner looks for an extra reaction on a specific question.

Why do U.S. presidents use their own cars overseas?

The U.S. knows its own ballistic vehicles and their limits. Host cars may have unknown armor or hidden bugs. The U.S. flies its cars over for safety.

How does Evy say interrogators get criminals to talk?

They use influence. They give the person autonomy, build reciprocity, and show authority. They preserve dignity and let the person talk. With high-level targets, they spend days building rapport.

Watch the full episode with Evy Poumpouras on Raj Shamani's Figuring Out podcast. It is 1 hour 57 minutes and 52 seconds long.

Sources

How To Read People, Spot Lies & Reveal Their Secrets | Evy Poumpouras | FO563 Raj Shamani - Raj Shamani, 1:57:52.